The Atheist and the Crucible

The Omnivore saw something interesting: 

This is Pinecreek

This is The Crucible

(Andrew a.k.a. Big Papa Fascist upper right)

This Will Take A Little 'Splainin

PineCreek is an uber-atheist. He holds the pleasant, polite, and often incisive PineCreek channel where he debates with theists about why they hold their beliefs and pokes holes in their logic. He's very polite--very well spoken--and he does a good job of hiding his conservative power level . . . usually.

A few days ago he was on The Crucible.

The Crucible, headed by Andrew--who was deemed the Big Papa Fascist and has taken the name as "a joke" is a right-wing politics debate channel. It's pretty good--rarely a trash fire--and whatever the problems they might have, they aren't Trumpaloos and aren't stupid. No, the problem with The Crucible isn't intellectual horsepower. In this episode, Andrew argues for an Orthodox Church Theocracy and he's very conservative (but no, not Trumpian, nor especially racist for someone with his general political leanings). PineCreek had some questions.

It Was a Love Fest (sorta)

PineCreek is totally anti-theist. He is eager to tear down their world-views (The Omnivore doesn't know if he's trying to de-convert people or just likes arguing--but boy does he like arguing). However, he's also . . . quite conservative. He doesn't usually go into it on his channel, but for instance, when hugging Andrew, he explained that:

• The shoplifting epidemic in California is horrible.
• What they are doing to kids (Transing them, presumably) is heartbreaking
• Earlier: They're litigating against Trump because they don't want him to run again.

The shoplifting epidemic IS horrible--he's not wrong about that. It's become something similar to just "shopping" in some places . . organized, systematized shopping. Seeing liberals make excuses for it (it's big corporations? whatever) isn't great. Clearly there is some kind of breakdown there. The Omnivore hasn't looked into it (probably: neither has PineCreek). But . . .

What they are doing to kids? That's . . . well . . . PineCreek isn't stupid--but that take is (The Omnivore is sure he's stuffed full of nuance and fact like a pinata--and if hit, would run away rather than debate on THAT--because, like the theists he goes after . . . he probably can't defend his strongly held opinion).

And . . 

If the words "They're just going after Trump because they don't want him to run again" came out of his mouth, The Omnivore bets that if questioned on that position, his nuance would be "I don't actually believe that--or at least I can't defend it--so I cede the field like the mighty intellectual warrior I am!").

Given his rigor with theism, his take on politics is what you'd expect from a real conservative . . . flimsy and a bit cowardly.

On The Theocratic Autocracy

But when he met Andrew? There was hugging--Christian-ethics side-hugging . . . so not gay--certainly not gay--but hugging . . . maybe even some platonic kissing.

You see, PineCreek really WANTED to, erm, bottom for Andrew. PineCreek, by his own admission agrees with Andrew's morals--just not the source of them (and maybe not all of them--unclearn on how PineCreek feels about The Gays--but probably he doesn't want them anywhere near impressionable young children).

However--he wanted to know if in Andrews Theo-topia he'd be executed for not being Christian? Would he?

Oh, noes--certainly not, Andrew said. Yes, the earlier church held executions for all kinds of things--but his enlightened Theotopia? Never. You'd be safe as houses, PineCreek. Let's hug. Sideways. 

Yes--they were quite eager to get past the whole God-Doesn't-Exist thing and agree that the Theotopia would be a better place for them both to live. Would it? Let's look.

The Orthodox Theotopia

Firstly, Andrew won't have a Protestant Church in charge--it's too splintered. There's no singular head. So, no--has to be Orthodox. Catholic would work, yes--but it's not preferable. Andrew wants his brand of orthodox--Eastern (?) to be the top collar. For mere nanoseconds, this sounds sensible. Then it all falls apart (but PineCreek lets it go--why? Love was in the air, man. Don't harsh the vibe, man. All conservatives really want to be counter-cultural hippies at heart. Remember that.)

The problem with this is that (a) Orthodoxies DO splinter (Vatican II, our new woke-pope, etc.) It might not be a formal schism--but if that disqualifies you from holding the crown then the comparatively tiny Orthodox church Andrew believes in would likely only meet the requirements for a little while once you put it in charge of the current sole hyper-power on earth.

Also (b) Andrew says Catholicism would be acceptable--because if he disqualifies it, things get uncomfortable fast. PineCreek won't say it (it'd be rude!) so The Omnivore will:

• For someone all Save The Children, does the Catholic Church's massive pedophile scandals disqualify them? If not, why? Objectively priests on a per-capita scale are worse than drag queens.
• What does Andrew think about Vatican II? The Omnivore bets he really doesn't like it! But it was done through the rules, so he has to accept it (philosophically). But he can't say that--because then we discover that he doesn't really think Catholicism is a legitimate theo-governement. He just can't disqualify it on the playingfield he wants to fight on.

Andrew is, as they say, hiding his power level.

But so is PineCreek.

PineCreek wants to know if he'd be killed for not believing in the Orthodox state. Andrew says "no wai, boi--we friends, let's hug!" (sideways). But The Ominvore isn't so sure. You see, the problem is this:

1. Andrew knows--really knows--in his heart--that there is NO WAY to implement his idea. He's further away than American Stalinists. He's hitched his cart to a loser of an idea. There isn't even sixth or seventh column gearing up to take the reins of power when his accelerationist buddies tear down the globohomo-state. No, he's all: "Get in the car, loser! We're going losing." Big Papa Fascist hates to lose almost as much as PineCreek does. So . . . what the fuck?
2. However, Andrew knows he can hold a position so long as it's all philosophical and he can hug (sideways) and fuck (so long as he's not photographed doing it) the hard-right and he can get a lot of what he wants: persecution of degeneracy. That's why he doesn't think he's a loser. Remember: the ultimate goal here--for both of them--is to fight in their chosen arenas and Not Lose.

So Andrew, whether he admits it or not, is in bed with all the religofascists who ARE in positions to take power. He just, you know, hides his power level, so he can give PineCreek the philosophical reach-around.

PineCreek was liking it too--it's good to have friends. But PineCreek ALSO had to pretend to O. You know, he had to pretend he didn't see the inherent contradictions that mean that Big Papa Fascist isn't quite the ironical joke that Andrew makes it out to be. No--he's perfectly okay with a fascism that's religious and kinda close to his. It's also one that would throw PC off the building along with the degenerates PC also hates.

Piney would hate them all the way down to the pavement--and feel mistreated--victimized. Andrew would shed a tear, yeh? But that's what he's talking about right now in real life, on stream. For Andrew this isn't a hypothetical game of philosophical chess. He can go and vote for Trump or Ted Cruz or Ron DeSantis and, should they win, get closer to the fascist state he wants. He'll just have to swallow the racism (which he doesn't like) and sniffle as PineCreek gets put on a list somewhere for big-time atheists spreading their child-harming degeneracy).

But he knows that so long as he doesn't play in PineCreek's sandbox he doesn't have to risk losing--and PineCreek knows he can be bedfellows with The Crucible just as long as he's willing to sleep in the wet spot.